Landed property - what's the catch?

[MC Donalds]

Hi folks!

Been doing a bit of apartment hunting and somehow landed properties (terrace houses etc.) appear much more interesting than condos.

Wouldn't be getting a pool (not that the ones I have seen are good for anything but drowning kids) or the Indian chaps dozing off at the gates, but would be getting heaps of space, a bit of yard, and possibly a more quiet environment. Yet, the prices seem much lower than condos.

The maintenance costs would be higher but sounds like good deals to me. Still worried that there's something that I'm missing. Anybody care to enlighten?

n*10^6 of thanks in advance!

[Dude]

Sorry, but you mean you want to buy or rent?

I think that's a stupid question, but I don't know the answer...

[check these out]

Try Trevose 12, Binjai Crest, or Gilstead Brooks.

They are "strata landed", which means that they are bungalows or terraced houses with shared facilities such as gymnasiums, tennis courts and swimming pools.

Foreigners are allowed to buy strata landed properties.

I have a soft spot for Gilstead Brooks as a friend lives there. Trevose 12 is nice as well, but pricey. Binjai Crest is too far and I don't really like how it looks (oldish). The former 2 are modern and well-designed with designer fittings.

[MC Donalds]

Oops, sorry. Forgot to mention that I am looking for a place to rent.

[Registered User]

McDonalds, there are nice landed properties for rent without your having to pay an arm and a leg for the rental. HOWEVER....these properties are located in the Eastern or Northern parts of Singapore. To the locals, it means 'far' but to expats who have lived in homes away from the city, Singapore is only an hour via car from one end to the other end.

Get a copy of the Straits Times and look into the Property for Rent page. Do not sign anything an agent gives you as it is best you don't get yourself tied down to one who takes his/her own sweet time to find you a home. Give them your budget, the specifics of the home you want and view as many properties as you can.

Some of the properties look rundown but that's because the owners are not planning to live there at all. Hence, the rentals are cheap. With a fresh coat of paint and some minor faceworks the residence can be spruced up to look good. The advantage is not just the low lease but that all your other requirements are met - yard for kids, etc.

If you want a good-as-new conditioned house, you must be prepared to pay high rentals and also a fussy owner who will pop by every now and then to check you did not smear his/her walls or made any changes to his/her home.

[MC Donalds]

Thanks for the comments!

That's exactly what I've been doing and it seems to be a renter's market, in particular since I am looking for a place close to work. Close to work happens to be quite far from the city. Coincidentally, Central or Eastern Singapore would be just right.

I have engaged an agent but it seems that the prices he's quoting are quite inflated, those quoted at ST ads seem to be up to 25% lower. Haven't signed a single piece of paper but don't mind paying his commission if he finds the right place.

The general condition of the places seems decent and with a bit of new paint here, the likes of the canary yellow fake leather coaches thrown out and maybe new water taps there they will be quite all right. That's not much of a cost and effort.

I just can't figure why the prices are so much lower than the condo prices. Thought it should be the other way around. Could it be that there's no catch except the non-preferred location maybe, and no facilities such as gym, pools etc.?

[Registered User]

McDonalds, I often wondered why expats chose to live in condos too! The property market sees a demand for condos, hence, the high rental prices. Many expats are not aware there are landed properties for rent too. Oh well, maybe they thought the landed ones cost twice as much as the condos.....

Yes, condo rentals include the usage of facilities like swimming pool, gym, tennis court, multi-function hall, etc. All that can be available if you join the American/British Clubs. Staying in the East means you're near the East Coast Parkway where you and your family can roller blade, cycle or swim in the sea. I reckon some trolls will tell you the park is packed on weekends, which is true but then the entire stretch of ECP is fairly long. If you don't like crowds then stay away from where the eateries are located.

There are some semi-detached/terrace houses off Changi Road in Eastern Singapore for rent. The last I heard the rental was S$1700 - S$2000 for a 3 storey, 4 bedroomed unit with a lawn and ample parking space for a car. If you do not have a vehicle, that area can also be used as a play area for your children.

The best thing about landed properties is you can keep a big dog - big is better as big dogs don't bark non-stop like the tiny ones. A dog will be an excellent playmate for your pre-teen kids and not only that, the canine can double as a good watchdog for your home.

I hope you get the home you want soon! Good luck!

[MC Donalds]

Sure the ECP is crowded on the weekends, but is there a place in Singapore that's not?

Reading the condo discussions at the other board, seems that many swimming pools are even more crowded. Also agree that ECP is not so crowded once you go a bit further away from the McDonalds. The water doesn't look too tempting, though, given all those tankers swimming there. Still, in my books walrusing is nicer on the beach than on a pool.

Seems that with my $2.5 budget I have a plenty to choose from but wouldn't get much of a condo. Let's just keep the prices our little secret so they won't go up too much

So, a summary:
+ spacious (a luxury to me)
+ usually comes with a little piece of land
+ reasonably priced
+ maybe more quiet

- spacious (more to clean if you want to look at it that way)
- often quite remotely located
- no facilities
- likely to need a car
- higher maintenance cost
- maybe lack of security

+/- pet friendly
+/- probably less interaction with neighbours

Anything to add?

[bernie]

If I could tout a lil' over here, lol. Mc, give me a shout or send me an email. I have access to all the properties available under the sun in sunny Singapore. Tenants pay no commision anyways. I can sort out all your needs and your preferences, then recommend the best places for you, secure viewings, make an offer and negotiate on your behalf, etc. Even if you go get another realtor, you can always shoot me an email to ask me if you are getting a good deal or not, I can check out the prices for you and advice you for free. No worries!

[bernie]

P.S. If you still cannot find a place that you like till September, I have a place that will be available in East Coast in end of August. Not advertised, cos it's my aunt's place. Vacant for a while, in excellent condition because they just can't be bothered and I suggested them to lease it out when I met her two weeks ago. She will use the place to host her friend from the States when he flies in next week. After that, when he wants to find a condo, it will be available.

P.S. >>>>I have engaged an agent but it seems that the prices he's quoting are quite inflated, those quoted at ST ads seem to be up to 25% lower. Haven't signed a single piece of paper but don't mind paying his commission if he finds the right place.

Kudos to that! That is the spirit, because you get monkeys when you pay peanuts. I hope your realtor will find the right place for you. Let me know the general location and asking prices if you want so I can advice you the best price to counter offer. Umm, this is free for you if you like because I don't want to undercut your realtor since he is already servicing you. Best of luck in finding the place you like!

[Registered User]

Bernie, are you a property agent?

[bernie]

Yes, Reg. Didn't you know?

How can I help?

[MC Donalds]

Hi Bernie,

If the sunny Singapore you are reffering to is anything like the perpetually cloudy one where I've been the last few years, except sunnier, must be a really nice place!

Thank you for the offer! I am hoping to find my place this weekend but if that falls through, then I'll have to start making additional arrangements. Don't want to cross my current agent, he's doing a good job but if any need arises, will scream for help.

[bernie]

Mc,

>>>>Don't want to cross my current agent

No, don't do that. If he is doing a great job for you, finding properties that really fit your criterias, needs and wants, stick with him. You will be rewarded. One loyal agent is worth more than 1000 who don't give a crap about you and your needs.
One motivated agent who knows you are sticking with him will go out of their way to gain your trust and find the best property that suits you. Rather than an agent who knows you are also calling 9 other agents to look for properties... none of them would be motivated. It's a hit or miss affair anyways. But should you and your agent who is doing his job be loyal to each other, it will give all of you what you need and achieve your one objective of finding a place. You only need one agent because you are only looking for one place, anyways.

[localaunt]

That is very professional of you Bernie. Unfortunately, I feel that the property industry, like the insurance and MLM industries attract a lot more unprofessionals who are unscrupulous in their dealings. It is common knowledge that full-timers recruit part-timers to generate more clients and hence, more sales.

Your advices are sound, Bernie and regretfully, not many home hunters value such advices. Often, a smooth talker can easily convince a first-timer in Singapore to believe everything he/she says so as to close the deal.

I find it perplexing as to why people jump to conclusions when, for e.g., you tell them useful tips about house-hunting and they become all defensive and think you're trying to promote your services. I mean, in personalized services such as those we provide, it is best to do business with people who are open-minded and not those who have an 'undying' loyalty to their service providers.

Hey, it is a consumers' market and everyone has the right of making choices not just one choice regardless of whether it's a product, a service or a person.

Die...I'm sure to get shot left, right and centre!

[bernie]

Well, sweetold, appreciate your comments.
I guess I believe in a live and let live world. Everybody has a family to feed. If I think a client is worth taking on, and I do my best for them, certainly I wouldn't want anyone to undercut my business. What goes around comes around.

In fact, it is easy to retain customers, my clients stay with me and recommend people to me because they get it that I am sincere about my job.
You can do business in many ways, one is to fluff you way around, the other is simply to get what your customers want and if necessary, educate them about their expectations. Which would you rather do if you had a choice? I choose getting my customers what they want, that's what service is about. There is a choice.

More part timers does not mean more sales as well. Not only in real estate though. There are black sheeps in EVERY trade. Even in shopping malls can you find service staff totally disinterested in offering good service. Part time property agents who pick up every other client without first qualifying their needs is only wasting time, effort and expenses.

If someone is already working with a good agent, and he is showing you exactly the properties you want and educating you about the market (should you want a penthouse with a HDB budget), advising you, and servicing you in tune with your requirements, the best advice I can give is still the same, stick with him. Both sides will be rewarded.

[localaunt]

You are welcome, Bernie. I totally and absolutely agree with you that putting clients/customers' interests before self should be the main focus in whatever industry we are in. It's such a high to see people happy and thanking you profusely. ;D

[MC Donalds]

Hi there Sweet Old Lady!

I hear what you say, and I also appreciate the professionalism and enthusiasm of Bernie here.

My objective here is very simple: find a decent place to stay with the minimum hazzles. So, it's a relatively simple optimization problem.

Given that the market in Singapore is pretty good, there is a plenty to choose from on a huge range of prices, locations, apartment types, etc., the stick-to-one-agent policy also serves as a measure of hazzle minimization. I have nowhere near enough patience to keep explaining my wishes to a bus load of agents [and listening to their sales stories] and keep arranging the viewings with all of them.

Besides, I don't believe for a second that their property databases would be that [any?] different. There must be dozens of available properites in Sin that are good enough for me so even if the databases are partially disjoint there should be enough suitable candidates. I'm not exactly hunting the hidden gem here.

Of course I have to know what's the going rate for a specific property before signing anything, and I have to know what to include in the contract, etc. If I have not done my homework, who to blame if I screw up?

[wanna buy]

Bernie,

What about buying a place like those being mentioned here ? What can I expect to make of the first quote given by an agent over the phone ? i.e, if he says 1.3 mil, does that mean that with some work it's really 1mil, or are the prices fairly non-negotiable in this category ?

Also, is it a buyers or sellers market at the moment ?

[bernie]

wanna buy, I don't fully get your question.

But let me just take a shot and assume that you are asking, should the initial asking price of a property be $1.3 M, and with some negotiation on your part you may purchase the property at $1 M?

If this is your question, then the answer is a definite no. For an asking price of $1.3 M, if you could get the price down to $1.25 M, that is already a feat in Singapore's market. (residential properties only command a return of 3% - 4% on average, sometimes lower).
Most properties on the market are priced similarly. If someone has spent a bomb doing extensive renovations and feel house-proud, they may list it $100 K or so above the rest on the market.... and probably the buyer would negotiate it down by $30 - $50 K.

Not all houses are negotiable though. There are some properties that are already priced to sell, and a sincere buyer who has been shopping around would know the price to be reasonable. For such properties priced at such, no negotiation is entertained and they usually go fast, anyways.

The only residential properties that you may see a $300 K discount would be in the HIGH END condominiums and Good Class Bungalows (in designated GCB districts, with the bungalow land size more than 15,000 sqft) sectors. Some properties asking for $10.5 M has been known to transact at $9 M, etc.

Hope that answers your question.

It is looking like a sellers market at the moment.